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Recently, we were invited by New Line Home Entertainment to spend 15 minutes interviewing film director John Herzfeld. The funny thing is, we spent the first 15 minutes discussing our mutual passion for film in which we gave each other recommended picks for DVD viewing. As it turns out, the director has a special passion for anything that has to do with World War II. After chatting about our favorite documentaries and war epics, we spent the next 45 minutes discussing a few films that Herzfeld has directed, including 15 MINUTES and 2 DAYS IN THE VALLEY.
TBP: Let's start at the beginning. Internet Movie Database has precious little information about you personally other than the fact that you lived in Memphis and went to school at the University of Miami. What got you interested in writing and directing -- and what got you started in film?
JH: I've always... I've been writing since second grade. It's not something I ever... I never said to myself I'm going to be a writer... I started to write short stories in second grade... we went on a school trip to the United Nations. We were supposed to report on what we learned at the U.N. ... I remember, because I kept it, my mother kept it and showed to me years later when I was around 20 years old. When I was at the U.N., I looked around, and they were describing what the U.N. is and here's the general assembly... all I could think of was (that) there were pencils by every desk. And I thought, "who sharpened them?" And I wrote this character "Melvin the official pencil sharpener" who's this skinny guy who always gets a cold and is afraid to go out in the rain... I just wrote a story about who the guy was, and how proud he was of his perfectly pointed pencils. And you know, I just wrote short stories and when I started watching movies -- I loved movies... I'm lucky in the fact that I never thought about what I wanted to be, I just knew I wanted to be in the movies and when I saw Spartacus -- I forget how old I was -- I remember my father taking me to see Spartacus. That was the first time I waited to see the credits to see who wrote this. And I remember seeing the name Dalton Trumbo and thinking "wow, somebody wrote this whole story and all the characters and did they write the words that came out of their mouths?" And that's how I became aware of what a screenwriter was. After that I started out as an actor, and did small parts in movies... I was a mugger in DEATH WISH that tries to kill Charles Bronson on the train... the first one...
TBP: That's YOU?
JH: That's me with a motorcycle jacket on...
TBP: You know it's funny... he hits you and you go falling over backwards or something?
JH: That's when he shoots me, yeah.
TBP: This is hilarious! We have a contest here at the BIG Picture, called the BIG caption contest and in it we try to find amusing or unusual frames from films and let our readers come up with clever and funny captions for them. And I actually have a screen shot of you getting clocked by Bronson in the train!
JH: Wow yeah, I've got the American flag on a leather jacket?
TBP: Yeah!
JH: That's me!
TBP: (laughing) That's incredible! Now that picture hasn't actually come up in rotation for our contest yet, but you're going to have to have a look when it does. In fact, I may orchestrate it so that your photo comes up soon and you can see what some of our readers have to say about you. That's really funny...
Director John Herzfeld in an early acting role - DEATH WISH.
JH: If you watch the movie SERPICO... Pacino is following two Latin junkies and they go to a door to cop some dope in the building and that's where he gets shot in the face... the taller of them is me. So I started out doing small parts in films, and ended up doing an episode of Kojak. Toward the end of Kojak I came to California and did lots of TV and did a lot of writing nonstop, everyday. I eventually left acting to write and direct. I'm lucky and fortunate in that I never wanted to do anything else but be involved in movies. I loved movies, I've always been a movie nut. I've watched and seen so many of them... I can see four or five movies in a weekend. I love going to the movies, alone sometimes.
TBP: Do you have a family?
JH: Yeah, I've got a family. I'm actually teaching my son whose turning seven in three weeks... I'm now weaning him off Pokomon...
TBP: Good luck...
JH: Yeah, believe me... I'm weaning him off Digimon and Rug Rats to try and get him watch movies with me. And so for example, my son will tell you now if you ask him what he watched last week, and he'll tell you "THE SEARCHERS". And if you ask him who's in, it he'll say "John Wayne!!" And so I'm slowly starting to show him the classics. I'm about to show him this weekend, SHANE.
TBP: I'm doing the same thing with my son who'll be nine years old in a few weeks...
JH: There you go!
TBP: Recenty, I was watching RAISIN IN THE SUN and he really surprised me, because he loved it. My son also really liked HELL IS FOR HEROES with Steve McQueen. It's a kick introducing your kids to great films, isn't it?
JH: I think it's great. We literally have him on the "classics" program. But then I'll also show him things like... because I still have all these laser discs that I don't know what to do with... VALLEY OF THE GWANGI... you heard of that?
TBP: I'm afraid that one escapes me...
JH: It is a great -- it's with James Franciscus... and what it is, it's if you took a western and mixed with a dinosaur movie, that's what you have. It starts out as this western about this traveling western show that performs in Mexico... and you think you're watching one movie and before you know it, then there's like a little baby dinosaur that somebody has found and the Gypsies tell them "you've got a let it go and let it go back to its mother" and before you know it, you've got dinosaur movie in the second half. It completely changes (laughs).
TBP: There are a lot of funny movies out there. It sounds like UNKNOWN ISLAND. That's a really funny one made in the 1940s. You know, it's the kind where the guys are walking around wearing rubber T-Rex suits and they're moving at half a mile per hour and every one's terrified that they're going to be caught and eaten... Switching gears here, you've worked with two of my all-time favorite actors... Danny Aiello in TWO DAY'S IN THE VALLEY and Robert DeNiro in of course 15 MINUTES. How was it working with those guys and how was their approach to their craft different?
JH: Danny is extremely loose, very funny, bigger than life... I love him. We have a great time together, I like to tease him all the time... Danny... I just love him. Bob, he's just terrific to work with -- he's just incredibly generous. Of course, Bob is quiet and a private man, but he's also very funny when you're alone with him... But he's very, very generous and he's very thorough... and he's meticulous in terms of his research when he's approaching a role... he has a great eye in terms of material and suggestions in character and character development. They're both very different to work with and their processes are very different, but they're both so talented.
TBP: What was it like to work with Edward Burns in 15 MINUTES? What do you think he brought to the table that was unique and/or valuable to 15 MINUTES? I don't hear much about him.
JH: Ed is a very natural kind of salt-of-the-earth noble-shit guy. He is from New York, his father is a police officer, his uncle's a police officer. He's one who didn't know when he was growing up that he wanted to be in the movies or be a filmmaker and he's just a really straight-ahead guy. He's very smart, I think he has great instincts and he's a good guy. When I saw him in BROTHERS MCMULLEN, I thought he had a real great screen presence and he has that kind of very New York feel to him. And I thought that's what I was looking for. I wanted a real natural quality and I wanted someone whose big, tall... because fire marshals usually have to put in seven years on the job as a fireman he for they can become an arson investigator, and Ed has the size to be believable as a fireman and, you know, I just thought he had this really great quality and I thought there be a good chemistry in putting him with Robert DeNiro. They're both New Yorkers, and both non-bullshit, very un-Hollywood guys and I just thought the mix would work.
TBP: Now the casting of Karel Roden and Oleg Taktarov I thought was really a bold stroke of genius. These guys really stole the show. Where did you find these two?
JH: Well, Oleg I had seen a few years ago, fight. Oleg is an "ultimate fight" champion. I don't know if you've ever seen that...
TBP: Actually I tried to avoid that sort of mayhem, but it seems like he might be kind of a scary guy to boss around.
JH: You know what? Not at all... you know, again he's very funny, and he has a great sweet side. It is true, if aroused, I mean, let's say if someome were to insult his wife or tried to do something that he felt was wrong, I certainly wouldn't want to be on his bad side because he's an extremely tough man... but, I'd seen him fight and when I was thinking about who to cast I said to the casting director "have you ever heard of this guy Oleg Taktarov?" And she said, "I have him coming in." I said "you know him?" And she said, "Well, his agent submitted him..." and as it turns out, he'd been studying acting and wanted to quit fighting and become an actor. He came in, and he was great. Of course, I made him read another 25 times until I found Karel in Prague and brought him over to read with Oleg. Eventually, they did a scene with Bob to see how it would all work out. I specifically wanted two unknowns who brought no baggage with them, because I wanted -- the whole idea of the movie is two unknowns who come to America and eventually be, very known, so I thought let me not get an American or British actor to do an accent, but let me get the real thing and nobody knows them but by the end of the movie you will, because it mirrors what I'm trying to do in the story. I was very happy. Karel is no novice -- he's extremely well known in the Czech republic and a very respected actor, but he's completely 180 from his character. He's a very gentle, soft-spoken, quiet, shy -- extremely shy -- actor.
TBP: You mentioned before in your commentary how you exploited the innate hatred that Karel has for the Russian language and decided to keep that as part of the film. Did that lead to any real friction between Karel and Oleg?
JH: I think they were very friendly... You know, I have to say to you in any Czech's heart and mind, who has been brought up and been forced to learn Russian and have basically have their country occupied by the Russians, there has to be frankly, I'd have to say, a lot of resentment. And once the walls came down and Czech became a democracy, I mean you could just imagine. Suddenly they're free, and they own their own country again. So I just think it's going to be indigenous to who they are, that they were brought up as basically an occupied country, you know, they're one of the satellites. You know I really wanted to bring the out. I traveled in the East bloc extensively in '85. I mean, I went there as the young man and just wanted to see what communism was like, you know? Up and personal, and actually spent two months going from Poland all the way down to Romania and was fascinated to see how, you know, communism just didn't work anywhere. It was just run on bribery. Everything was money, everything was trying to pay off somebody. And again, it instilled a lack of ambition in so many people because what are you going to work for? You're going to get the same amount anyway if you work harder it doesn't work. If you don't work harder, what's the difference? It just was... it doesn't work. And I wanted these two characters to be from a society that is relatively new to democracy. They've been in jail for seven years, and their country doesn't have the freedom of television, radio and print the way America does and that was part of the whole story.
TBP: So your visit to these Eastern Bloc nations in 1985 was part of the catalyst for writing 15 MINUTES? Did that inspire you?
JH: Absolutely. I wanted these characters to be Eastern Europeans. The villains or antagonists in so many films are from some other place, but I've never seen a Czech. I was never aware of seeing that Czech antagonist -- and a Czech and a Russian together with the differences they bring together... I've never seen that before. So I thought it would just be fresh.
TBP: Vladimir Mashkov...
JH: Oh, he's great. Did you see THE THIEF?
TBP: I did see THE THIEF. I thought he was wonderful in that and I was glad to see him in 15 MINUTES. Although it was such a small role for him. Had you considered him for something else?
JH: Yes he read for Karel's role. It was down to the two of them
TBP: But Karel just wound up taking it,?
JH: Well, yeah. Karel also speaks much better English, and you now I think that his intensity... Karel is so intense.
TBP: Talk about the sinister guy, he was really able to portray that aspect very well I think.
JH: Again, he's so different it's incredible. He has none of that in him as a person.
TBP: I'm relieved to hear that. How did he and DeNiro interact?
JH: Great. I think that Bob really respected Karel and Karel was thrilled to be there with Bob.
TBP: In the commentary you mentioned that when Bob spits in Karel's face in that very taut, tense scene that you've developed, that was not part of the script...
JH: Absolutely not. It became a whole new scene after that. We had to start re-shooting the scenes from scratch again, because I'd alredy ready shot Karel and Oleg's side and there was no spitting. And then when I turnaround on Bob it just came out of him and then once that happen of course, I had to go back and re-shoot Karel and Oleg again because Karel's got blood on his face. So, we went couple of days over on that because we just started over. I mean, I'll never forget I'm standing there in front of the monitor watching it and suddenly "boh" and and he spit at Karel and Karel spit right back him without hesitation, staying right in character and then it was a whole different scene. It went from one level to another level.
TBP: It was very well done, and riveting really. Obviously, it was a shock for audiences to see Robert DeNiro not make it through the entire film. I think it's probably the first time that DeNiro has been "whacked". I certainly understand the necessity to kill his character but what kind of reaction has that generated with public? While 15 MINUTES certainly did a respectable turn the box office ($26 million), do you think that once the word got out that DeNiro was killed off two-thirds of the way through the movie that it might have negatively impacted your box office potential?
JH: Maybe. Maybe. You know, I've heard people say "it's great -- it's a great twist -- I never saw coming". And I've heard people say "I couldn't believe you killed him. I was really disappointed you did that." But that was thematically what the movie's about. Thematically, they take their film, they show it on the air, that's what it's about. Uh, maybe I could've had it where he's tortured and they show that, but it wasn't the point I was trying to make...
TBP: Well, when you're setting the whole subplot up with him proposing to his girlfriend, I knew he was a gonner.
JH: Oh really?
TBP: Yeah, or at least something's going to happen to this guy. Everything was going too well for him. Did you have Robert DeNiro in mind for the part when you first started shopping 15 MINUTES around for studio support?
JH: I did about what about 75 other directors who are trying to cast a role do... He was my wish... he was the top of my wish list. Hoping I'd have a chance, you know, you always think Robert DeNiro... I just got lucky. We got it to him, I really didn't know him before. I met with him briefly on two other projects, not as a director but something as a writer. I didn't know him well. He had seen 2 DAYS IN THE VALLEY and DON KING: ONLY IN AMERICA and he gave me some notes and suggestions for the script and I did another rewriting, gave back to him and he asked for a table reading so he could hear the script -- I think that's part of Bob's process is to hear the script read aloud -- and we assembled some actors to read, including Ed Burns... at the end of the table read the next day he committed, which was a pretty good night for me.
TBP: In your commentary you mentioned that you had trouble finding studio support for this film for a few years. What led you to New Line?
JH: Nick Wexler, who is a producer who works with Keith Addis -- Nick is half a management team at Industry Entertainment, they read the script and really responded to it. And I said "Yeah, but I've got to tell you it's really been around, I'm going to try to get it going". They had an arrangement with New Line and they gave the script to New Line and Mike DeLuca read it and Bob Shea ...and the studio liked it for its thriller aspect and also for its satirical aspect. And I think it helped that I had done 2 DAYS IN THE VALLEY and DON KING: ONLY IN AMERICA, because both of those movies, the tones in those films would shift gears sometimes and go from drama to comedy. New Line was great, they said "let's do it" and were very supportive during the process. New Line is a very "filmmaker friendly" studio.
TBP: They are more apt to take chances than some of the other studios, at least in my observation.
JH: I think so, yeah.
TBP: You must be absolutely thrilled that 15 MINUTES was one of the first titles to be included on the new Infinifilm banner.
JH: I thought they did a great job, a just tremendous job. I like the documentaries. When I first heard about their doing these documentaries, I thought "what you mean Aphrodite Jones, Deborah Norville, Mark Fuhrman, Gloria Allred? How are they going to work in my movie?" And frankly, I was a little skeptical at first. And then I saw them... Jerry's Springer... these are the people that really have been in the harsh light of the spotlight in terms of becoming celebrities. These are people who do the shows that the Kelsey Grammer character is involved with. And hearing them comment on the movie honestly, nothing in it for them, just to comment on it... I've never talked to any of them before, I never had a conversation with any of them about this. I didn't even know they were doing these documentaries frankly, when they started to do them. I thought you know what, it really validates what I was trying to do... and I was very pleased with it.
TBP: Seeing somebody like Mark Fuhrman and Gloria Allred exchanging views of the same room is pretty interesting I thought.
JH: I thought it was fascinating when Mark Fuhrman revealed that Johnnie Cochran and Marcia Clark were negotiating book deals during the O.J. trial! I never knew that! Both for 4.2 million, according to Mark, before the end of the trial, which means that every day they showed up in court as they were negotiating their deals, that their performance in court that day would (have) impacted their negotiations.
TBP: You would think there would be some sort of a conflict of interest there, wouldn't you?
JH: I would most definitely think so. That had never come out before. When he said that, I had to rewind it to make sure I heard that right. I thought that was fascinating... you know what? Maybe some people in the media watching these documentaries... someone's going to pick up on what Mark Fuhrman just said and say "you know what, I think we should write a piece on this". I mean, I was astounded. I have people calling me and say "is this true"? I said "I don't know, I don't think Mark Fuhrman is going to lie, he must know."
TBP: It was entertaining to see how Jerry Springer defended his work while Sally Jesse Raphael tried to distance herself from tabloid television, somewhat.
JH: You know what? I thought here are the real people whose career and reputations are on the line and here they're making these comments. And I thought it was fascinating. They answered honestly and I like in the movie you go along and can see or hear Deborah Norville or Mark Fuhrman comment about this or that aspect of the plot -- is it real, it is it not, would it happen, could it happen? I thought that was great because again, they're not paid to make these comments, they weren't there before the movie was released -- although frankly I wish they would have done those documentaries before the movie was released -- but I think it's pretty fascinating stuff. It's very illuminating
TBP: After Kelsey Grammer was hammered for his work on stage recently, it was a pretty bold move to cast him in this film and one that I'm sure he greatly appreciated because it would give him an opportunity to do something other than Frasier Crane.
JH: I cannot say enough about Kelsey Grammer. I don't watch Frasier... I mean, I've seen a couple of shows but I don't watch a whole lot of sitcoms... I think Kelsey can do anything. I think he's an actor who has just enormous range and he's so damn smart and he's got such great intuition. He came in to read and Bob, who is unfamiliar with his work, believe it or not, because he doesn't watch a lot of TV... and he came in for 15 minutes and auditioned and read some scenes with Bob. He blew us away, we cast him on the spot. Kelsey's great. I mean I really think Kelsey could do anything. He's got enormous range. I mean, obviously he's so highly recognized in the world of comedy and television, but I think he's ... I think he's just great.
TBP: Is there anything about 15 MINUTES that you would have done differently in retrospect or anything that you would like our readers to know about that film that they may not pick up from just the casual viewing of it?
JH: Not, no, nothing. I would've loved if the advertising of the movie before it came out could have somehow, found a way to communicate that the movie has a lot of humor and satire, which I don't think we were able to do in terms of some of the advertising. I don't know, it's tough to do in :60 and :30 spots on television. But in terms of the movie itself, no, the scenes I took out I'd take out again tomorrow. I think the commentary I gave -- I didn't prepare for the commentary, I just sat there and said "roll it, let me talk" and tried to be as unprepared as I could, so I could be as honest as I could be, but you know, it's the movie I wanted to make and luckily New Line let me make that movie.
TBP: You mentioned DON KING: ONLY IN AMERICA a couple of times and I wanted to ask you a little about Ving Rhames, another actor who I hold in high regard. What kind of a guy is he to work with?
JH: Ving is a very serious actor. He was schooled at Juilliard and Ving and I worked in a way that he hadn't worked before... I'm very big on rehearsal. I like to rehearse all the scenes in the movie before we start shooting and frankly, I like to rehearse them in the locations where we'll eventually shoot them. I actually take the whole cast out to this street corner or this restaurant... I go to all the locations and we rehearse on those locations and Ving hadn't been used to rehearsing that much so it was new for him. But we had a great relationship and I think Ving's really terrific and I was thrilled to go to a place with Ving that I don't think he has been to before in terms of you know, Ving had been known as a wonderful actor, with a great intimidating quality, he'd played a lot of heavies... with a sense of humor, but heavies. And Don King is so over the top ...and I just think that Ving really worked hard and he worked with so many props. When you think he is wearing a wig, he has prosthetics on his face, he's wearing fat pads, he's got lifts, he's wearing fake teeth, he's smoking a cigar and he doesn't smoke cigars -- I mean, he had so much to deal with and I think he did a great job
TBP: You've been directing for awhile now and one of the things I've noticed is the wide variety of the kind of work you do -- I mean, the RYAN WHITE STORY, which you did for television is very different than 2 DAYS IN THE VALLEY just as DON KING: ONLY IN AMERICA is a far cry from 15 MINUTES. What are you interested in pursuing next?
JH: A love story or comedy. I want to do something completely different. I'm halfway through writing a very emotional love story and I've written a romantic comedy that if we can get going... a comedy with edge, but there's no guns... it's just wildly different than anything I've done. I want to grow as a filmmaker, I want to do new types of pictures that will help me become better at what I do. One is a romantic comedy and the other is a very dramatic and intense love story.
TBP: So you're writing both of these screenplays concurrently?
JH: No, one I've finished. I've finally finished... and the other one... I just write all the time... the other one I'm halfway through writing.
TBP: The romantic comedy is finished?
JH: Yes. All done, but I don't want to talk about it too much because of I'm afraid I'll jinx it, no one's read it yet...
TBP: Okay. So you don't want to say who you have in mind, huh?
JH: No, because if I don't get 'em...
TBP: So like... Julia Roberts, Tom Hanks, Meg Ryan, who else?
JH: Let's go down the list.
TBP: So do you think Andy Warhol was right?
JH: (incredulous) Oh, Andy Warhol was... of course he was right... he was definitely a visionary because everybody wants to be famous. Everybody wants to be famous. I'll tell you, I could sum it up this way: I remember listening to Howard Stern -- this goes back about four or five months -- there was this guy from Survivor -- I forget his name, they were interviewing him because he'd been cut. Howard was going "so, what do you do?". And the guy said "well I don't do what I did, now I'm famous". And Howard said, "yeah, but like, what do you do?" And he says "no, well I'm going to be a celebrity. You know, I'm going to use that and I'm actually looking at doing some spots here and spots there and promotions in this, that, and the other, but you know, I'm a celebrity". And Howard kept going "yeah, but what do you do?" And he's saying "I'm famous, at this point that's what I want to do full-time." And that's the goal. The goal is -- and you hear about this everywhere not just in the United States -- that somebody just wants to get famous. It's like fame without portfolio, just get there.
TBP: Well you know that's the only reason I'm doing this interview with you John, don't you?
JH: (chuckles) It's a phenomenon. It's because everything is so instant. It's because you do something and bang! You're on CNN that night. And, you know, you just want to parlay that spotlight into something that will make you money and get you known. Again, it used to be you had to do something, accomplish something, and then you could become famous. Now it's just "get famous", it doesn't matter how, just do it.
TBP: It's kind of a twisted concept, isn't it?
JH: I think so...
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